Oracles. (Some entries will contain spoilers from Ascension I and II)

[Kimberly @ElectricHippoParticipant]

During Indoctrination we learned of The Oracles. I feel it’s just to liken an Oracle to a Prophet. Both appear to be defined as an intermediary between a God (in our case, Anoch) and humanity. The Oracle or Prophet is said to be in contact with their God and able to speak the messages of their God to the following. Prophets are chosen in various ways depending on the religion. An Oracle is discovered in a very specific way, as we’ve learned during Ascension.

I have a question: Does the end justify the means?

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If you’ve been to Ascension you’ve seen the ceremony and you know the outcomes thus far. People die in the name of finding the next Oracle every single time. Some of us are even asked to choose a candidate worthy of the honor and/or sacrifice. When @masterlock asked me to choose she said something like this: “What is our criteria for choosing the victim. You can ask them one question…” I stopped her immediately and in a gentle voice asked “Victim?” She sort of shuddered and corrected herself suddenly: “Oracle. Choosing the Oracle!” I allowed the answer and we continued. I ultimately selected my husband. This might seem an odd choice to some, but I did not do it without a lot of forethought. The simple answer is this… He is brave and strong. He is the type of person who would willingly sacrifice himself for a greater good, whether that be revealing the word of truth or protecting the innocent.

Overseer spent a lot of time talking with me about how difficult she knows the choosing is, especially considering I just chose my husband and father of my child. She clearly knew the risks. She understood that most won’t survive the ceremony, but she had a conviction that this was what needed to be done because we need to find the new Oracle. She believes we need to maintain a clear path to Anoch. She believed we do this for the greater good.

So, again, does the (hypothetical) end justify the means?

[TaylorParticipant]

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As a clear pragmatist, I completely agree that the end justifies the means. A lot of weight is put on your shoulders to do the choosing, but picking someone strong, brave, and willing to sacrifice himself to the greater good is the ideal candidate. You definitely made the right choice, and your daughter would hopefully understand and be proud that her dad became (or died trying to become) the new oracle.

I put my greatest fear on the question is to die not being able to better the world around me, not being able to live up to my potential. I would gladly give up my life to become the next oracle. It would be an honor.

My question to you: why does the ceremony fail each time? why is someone who is picked so carefully unable to become the oracle? Have oracles been chosen this way before? Has something changed?

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Melissa. Reason: Contains spoilers, tag added

[LawrenceParticipant]

Can. of. Worms.

*** SPOILERS regarding my experience below ***
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My circumstance was different. I was asked to come up with a question that best determined who was “in the moment”. That’s significantly different from what you were tasked to do and, I believe, more closely aligned with Anoch’s teachings. i.e. An Oracle can only survive Ascension if they are so present and aware that their senses are irrelevant. Thus, the noble qualities your husband possesses would appear to be of little value according to Anoch’s teachings.

The ceremony fails each time because finding s/he who is fully aware and present is next to impossible. Indeed, the 3 candidates I was provided failed to answer my question, making them each unworthy candidates. “You can see my problem,” The Overseer said.

I toss this out to further confound us: does the ceremony, in fact, fail? Or are we and the others merely led to believe that it failed?

As for your thought-provoking question, “does the end justify the means?”, are we even certain what the means are, or merely what we’ve been made to believe they are?

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Lawrence.
• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Melissa. Reason: Adding additional characters for spoilers

[LivParticipant]

This is something I’ve been wondering about as well. If ascension isn’t working, for whatever reason, at what point does the loss of life negate any potential amount of good? It seems that the Overseer is getting desperate to find a new oracle, but why? If the last oracle dies and no new one is chosen, what’s the worst that could happen? They lose the connection to Anoch? Is that really a bad thing? Maybe the reason ascension isn’t working isn’t because they are unable to find a suitable vessel, but because Anoch has abandoned us. If this is true, then everything they have worked for is in vain and that could explain the level of desperation.

[SadakoParticipant]

I think the problem is seeing Death as a negative. Being chosen for Ascension is an honor that is not to be taken lightly as @electrichippo and @lmsmedley have witnessed. But if the ceremony fails, it’s not in vain because it’s still bringing us one step closer to the light of Anoch.

SPOILERS

During my time at the OOA, I was questioned about a hypothetical group of people who had died and presented with the quandary as to whether they had lived full and complete lives. I immediately answered this without hesitation because everyone lives a full and complete life regardless of individual circumstances.

Those who are honored with the possibility of Ascension are being rewarded by Anoch even if the ritual fails. They have served their purpose and are now truly free. Anoch’s light lifts all our burdens, but the form it takes is an individual one for each of us.

I hope these words bring you and your child comfort @electrichippo. I know you have the greatest of faith in @masterlock. May all our purposes come to be as it did for your husband.

Glory Be!

[MelissaModerator]

As a reminder the first 350 characters will show up in the activity log so if your comment contains spoilers please add the tag before you start commenting. To be on the safe side you can always copy/paste this:

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[LivParticipant]

Gah! Sorry, my bad. I didn’t really think of that as a spoiler. I’ll take more care in the future. >.<

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

I still believe the right Oracle is out there somewhere…

You know, thinking back all the way for our first consultation, was that what they were looking for? Or just more members for the OOA?
Jenna mentioned that when she went in the red room back in February, that they had pictures of me, her and others… They told her these individuals were “very important to the Institute.” When she fled, Gatekeeper 5 called me saying “We need to find her. She’s very important.” I can only suspect that these “important” people are the core members of the community here…

So what if this whole Ascension ceremony is just a cover (“This isn’t what you think it is…”)? That the real Oracle exists somewhere within “The One” and that everything we’ve experienced so far has been a test to reveal the ultimate Oracle…a chosen one, if you will.

[MelissaModerator]

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@kasch I never really thought of it that way, like this has actually been a process of elimination by, well, elimination? I wonder if anybody has chosen Overseer to be the next Oracle? If you look at the org chart it wouldn’t make sense for Overseer to become an Oracle (Oracles appear to be just floating out there) but of all people she seems to be the most enthused about “rebooting” the OOA.

[Kimberly @ElectricHippoParticipant]

Seems I’ve been misunderstood in regards to my husband and the Oracle ceremony. I would also like to discuss for a moment the concept of innocence versus guilt and honor versus punishment. Let me elaborate…

……SPOILERS ASCENSION 1 AND 2…… …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Although I selected him and he was sat on stage and prepared for the ceremony, he did not die. There are two chairs on that stage and two people to be tested as the new Oracle. My husband was second to be tested. The first girl is the one who appeared to have died or at least been horribly injured. When this happened @masterlock called the ceremony to a halt and had me assist her in releasing my husband from his bindings. It took a bit to wake him from the effects of the chloroform. The very tall man in the vest even had to slap him a bit to have him come to. Once he was aware and steady, he left the ceremony hall with the rest of the new initiates.

I’d like to play devil’s advocate for a moment. Recall moments in history where persons were guilty until proven innocent? There are various. I’m sure you are all aware, so I’ll refrain from listing them. In modern times we have worked very hard to ensure all first world citizens are afforded fair and just treatment before punishment is carried out.

Some of you have stated you do feel that being tested as an Oracle is an honor and one you would approach willingly. In this cases the Oracle test is not viewed as a punishment, but is there a flip side? Could this test be viewed as unlawful punishment? Murder even?

I’m not making a judgement call here. I am merely attempting to open a dialogue.

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

We could debate the wrong or right of the Ascension ceremony till we’re blue in the face…

@electrichippo What troubles me more is that two hours after you stepped into the OOA’s walls – as the most vocal member of the BOS and self-declared public enemy of the Institute – that you willingly led your husband to sacrifice. I know some huge things happened for you in the Red Room and I understand @masterlock‘s point of view in accepting you. But short of the helmet or Samson’s special Latin, I can’t for the life of me grasp such a hard conversion.

[SadakoParticipant]

@electrichippo I’m glad your husband is fine, but do you really question the actions of the Overseer?

Whatever the outcome, she guided you to that point. Maybe she knew your sacrifice would not be complete, but she still asked you to make it. Does that not in itself fulfill it’s purpose?

I personally do not question her guidance. I’m merely a tool for her use. Whatever my own judgement may be matters not for the greater good…

[LivParticipant]

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I can understand getting behind a cause for “the greater good”, but my problem is understanding what that greater good actually is. At the moment, I am of the opinion that those who have died during ascension have not been martyrs, but rather victims. Perhaps my feelings will change with greater understanding, but for the time being I see no reason to think otherwise. In my experience, blind faith can have devastating consequences, not just on ourselves, but on society as a whole. I respect the opinions of those who do choose to follow the path of Anoch, which I’m sort of lumping in with the path of The Overseer, and would be curious to know how you have come to this decision. Unfortunately, it seems that most are not at liberty to say.

[LawrenceParticipant]

We have incomplete information, thus forcing us to rely on instinct and intuition. What does yours tell you?

[LivParticipant]

Agreed, @lmsmedley. Right now my instinct is telling me things are not what they seem and to be very, very careful.

[LawrenceParticipant]

I think that’s always sound advice, although we are dealing with matters of faith.
Faith requires submission to circumstance.

For myself, I view this as an individual journey and that the OOA and The Overseer
were provided by Anoch (or perhaps, Fate) as a tool to aid me in that journey, much as the Greek
Gods provided assistance to those heroes on their journeys.

Thus, in reciprocal fashion, I wonder if my own presence is intended in the same manner.
Not to repay any obligation or debt, nor to save or to rescue, but simply as a matter of nobler purpose.

[Kimberly @ElectricHippoParticipant]

@sadako: I’m extremely loyal but I don’t follow blindly. I have reason to hope (and believe?) @masterlock appreciates these things about me. I may not agree with everything you say, but I do respect you and your convictions.

@kasch: I don’t expect you to debate things you find unworthy of debate. By all means, sit this one out. As far as what happened those two hours, who said a change occurred in two hours? For that matter, who said a significant change occurred at all? Look in the gray areas. That’s where the truth often exists. Have you forgotten, or maybe you were never aware, other than a couple moments of frustration, I have always been cooperative and supportive of this woman we now know as @masterlock. She invited me and my brothers and sisters of Seraph to her final meeting and called us all The One. Sentinel never once expressed an ill word towards this woman who was born Addison Barrow. Maybe you also noticed, The BOS never took a stand against The Book of Anoch. Considering these things (and I could list many more) is the current circumstance really so impossible to believe?

On the topic of my husband… He trusts me. We exchanged brief words in the deprivation circle room when no one could hear. This action WE took was as much his choice as it was mine. He did not walk to that stage unaware of what was to occur. Beyond what has been said on this matter already, I’m not at liberty to explain. my silences are to honor Overseer as well as my husband.

[SadakoParticipant]

Before this conversation continues, I must tell you all that some of your assumptions are objectively false. I say this as a witness to something a part of me no longer believed possible…

Tonight I entered the OOA broken. I wanted to have faith. No, I NEEDED to have faith. And yet my first experience left me wavering…

I spoke to @masterlock at length, but one thing I kept reminding her is the faith I have in her and in Anoch. She herself seemed to waver at times, and who can blame her? She’s seen a lot of failures since Ascension began. Part of me thinks she needed a sign just as much as I did…

I went in seeking faith… a sign that I was on the right path. That I should continue to follow this path…

And then I witnessed it… Ascenscion. A TRUE successful Ascension.

I know now that the OOA is not infallible. There are corrupt and vile individuals within those walls. I witnessed some even go so far as cause harm to Overseer as I stood helpless.

But this I know now. There is a war coming. A war that could bring the OOA closer to Anoch and true purity through the light. Or it could drive it back into total darkness…

Overseer IS that pure light we seek. And the fact that she has a new Oracle at her side after tonight only empowers her even more to end that corruption.

Consider that when you think of the necessary sacrifices that have been made so far.

Consider whether your resolution towards Overseer and the cause are worth the sacrifice knowing it has in fact strengthened us.

Glory Be!!!

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

Whoa, whoa, whoa…. @masterlock succeeded and found an Oracle?! A true Oracle?!?!

This is HUGE!

Who was this individual? And what words did they impart from Anoch? This is biggest thing that has happened since our time with the Institute and cause for celebration!!

[LawrenceParticipant]

Indeed it is. Tell us also of @masterlock and her reaction.

[SadakoParticipant]

@kasch – @masterlock was in greater shock than the rest of us. She fell to the floor and for a second my heart sank thinking once again we had seen failure. But then she arose stronger than I’ve ever seen her, proclaiming Ascension had been achieved! Truly achieved! We have a new Oracle to connect us to the words of Anoch!

It was a sight I will never forget. Those of us within the walls of the OOA celebrated this new coming vigorously.

I believe this is the beginning of a new era. An era where @masterlock brings the OOA back to the path Anoch wants us to follow.

I now have unwavering faith… I stand by her no matter how the brewing storm proceeds…

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Sadako. Reason: spelling
• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Sadako.

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

Incredible! She’s done it!

GLORY BE!

[TaylorParticipant]

This is so wonderful! After so many failures, we have a success!! I am glad that you were there to witness it, Julie.

I will return next weekend and hope to see this new oracle with my own eyes. I will ask what the plan is moving forward and how I can help!

[AmieParticipant]

This was a truly amazing thing to witness last night. There was a moment where I could see the sacrifice breathing after her senses had been removed and I felt terrible thinking she was suffering when Addison dropped to the ground but she wasn’t, she had ascended. The joy in that room was overflowing. I don’t know where we are going from here but we’ve taken a turn.

[Kimberly @ElectricHippoParticipant]

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It’s quite interesting that the one who ultimately became an Oracle is the same one many of us have spoken with about how she is an actor playing a role, and how she “dies” several times a night. She goes on in detail about the various actors and how many of them have began taking it all way too serious and now even live in the building full time. She even told me about the actor who plays Sentinel and his particular quirks. Our “plant” is now our “Oracle.” The lines of everything we do are so blurry.

[AmieParticipant]

This is very true. We were told the very same things. I would have liked to ask some questions after but there wasn’t time.

[DanParticipant]

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It is false. It does not work because it is not real. Just a not-so-clever ruse. This plant rode into east LA on a bicycle. Give me a break. There are no oracles and there is no Anoch. The best way to get rich is to create a religion. Sound familiar? Evil shall always be vanquished. But sometimes, light cannot destroy the darkness. Sometimes fighting fire with fire actually works.

CoS has learned this lesson as the virus we implanted causes them to crumble from within, so too will OOA. Vengeance is coming.

No Mercy.
V

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Dan.

[LivParticipant]

I tend to agree, Dan. Although, I’m withholding judgment until I speak with The Overseer. Incidentally, I can’t help but picture you wearing a Guy Fawkes mask as you type.

[DanParticipant]

Decide for yourself when you see her. If you are so inclined, message me after. Just be safe.

And incidentally, my face is my mask.

V

[LivParticipant]

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Well this has certainly given me a lot to think about. On the one hand, I’m thankful that there has been a successful Ascension and those who died did not do so in vain. On the other hand, the identity of the new Oracle gives me pause. As @electrichippo says, this is an actor who has been going through the motions of Ascension for some time now. There are many layers involved to this and I feel as though we still aren’t working with all the information. I’m going back through the doors of the OOA on Thursday. I still have many questions, just different than those I had before. Thank you for sharing this information with us, @sadako.

[Mustafa SaidParticipant]

Here’s my question.

If Ascension was supposed to be all about finding a new Oracle, and based on @sadako‘s account we’ve found one, why is Ascension continuing? It’s still going to run for another couple of weeks….but isn’t that all pointless now that an Oracle has been found?

[LivParticipant]

That is a fantastic question! I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

[BryanParticipant]

Spitballing here, @mumumusings, but weren’t there 4 Oracle slots in the org chart that surfaced? Could the goal be a full set?

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Bryan. Reason: I can't spell

[Mustafa SaidParticipant]

@bcbishop, I just checked the org chart and you’re right! There are four slots. And we’ve filled one of them so there are three more left…

[SadakoParticipant]

There already was at least one other Oracle already within the walls of the OOA that we know of. So at a minimum @masterlock now has 2 by her side.

[MouseParticipant]

I am confused don’t Oracles transcend the overseer? @masterlock

[Author]

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