Where Have You Been?

[NosnevetsParticipant]

I received an email. This is the second email in my time that has told me I’m not active enough on the forum. The first was a while back when I decided lurking was my thing, right after I first signed up, this one comes after ticket sales have gone up and I am unsure of my own participation in this whole ordeal. This email was entitled “your ascension” lowercase just as written. It spoke of how I filled out an extensive questionnaire, became very active on the forum, even “through” house parties and how now I have just disappeared. It also informed me of the tickets to ascension and how to obtain them.

I haven’t been away, I’ve been lurking again with nothing to say. The recent events have really polarized this community into sides. OOA and BOS. People are jumping to one or the other and theres very much a feeling of YOU MUST CHOOSE. I say why? I have absolutely no information that makes me want to choose. Both sides have only said bad things about the other, but neither has said anything good about themselves. I have said before I want/need them to prove it to me who I should follow, in fact as I count it there are four members of the WYLD STALLYNS as it is. Isn’t that right @endlesspictures @lukasrl @sovereignskies? But they haven’t proven it. I think it’d be fair to open it up to the members. Why have you chosen each side?

[CodyParticipant]

so @lukasrl and @nosnevets, it seems as though we are being pushed here.
There are many whom are lurking below the radar undecided.
I myself am still undecided. My main points are that Addison could have been making an individual choice by taking 4’s life. We have no confirmation of the OOA controlling or ordering Addison to do so.
The BOS… to me, honestly does not seem much better.
I am not seeing anywhere I wish to swear. 👀 Not yet anyway.
MY biggest take on all of that is that there are good and bad people everywhere. It all comes down to individual choice. Our paths are ours, good or bad.
I choose to remain on the fence. I’ll need a better push I guess. Lukas says The Wild Stallion’s! , Derek says Anarchist Voyeurs , I’m all about , The Lone Rangers!
“If it’s to loud, your to old!”
OR if you remember that… you may be to old as well. hah.
Hahaha.
I am totally with this line of thinking man!
Anarchy! lol.
So @mike mentioned a revolution… hah.

[NosnevetsParticipant]

Lone Stallyn Anarchistos!

[CodyParticipant]

Bahahahaha. Awesome!
Now there is a great example of teamwork.
Anarchistos!

[Lukas LParticipant]

Ill be honest. The OOA intrigues me. As does III but BOS. Meh. Addison has my attention quite well. Need to know more motive. And the helmet has me hella curious. But you are right, @sovereignskies @nosnevets, they want us to choose a side. Its like watching the Packers play the Titans. I love the game but its hard for me to root for either team. Its kinda like being asked this. (Insert choose your side instead of throwing away your vote)

But not gunna lie. Kinda leaning towards Addison. I like to see the quiet shy person stand their ground and take F&#*%$^ control. Been quite a few times in my life I wish I would have done that (Minus, you know, the throat slitting and all)…

[CodyParticipant]

Dig this meme!
hahaha. Merica fa sho! lol.
It not just Merica though, we suffer the same issues in Canada as well. Seems to be a running theme in any and all of the fiat financed nations.
Not many countries left sitting on the fence on that one eh boys? haha.

[NosnevetsParticipant]

[Lukas LParticipant]

No sir!

[Sean (@TheGilded)Moderator]

I’m admittedly confused as to what’s happening here.

There is a war happening, the question isn’t “Which of these sides is worthy of me”, it’s “which of these sides am I worthy to join”. There is a war happening and those who are unwilling to fight in it are either too uninformed to understand the sides, too uncaring or too coward to choose one. If it’s the first, you need to study up. If it’s the second or third than I call you unfit and unworthy of ascension.

[BlondieParticipant]

@thegilded I totally get where you’re coming from, and you know, it must be all nice and cosy being so sure. However:

1) I certainly don’t think it’s an issue of not caring enough – if they/we didn’t care, they/we would have simply buggered off by now…
2) I have spent hours and days and days and hours studying this damn situation from every possible angle so it’s not a matter of being wilfully ignorant. For some of us, the information just *isn’t* there to make an informed choice. The OOA and BOS are meant to be mysterious and unknown, and this requires a leap of faith that clearly some aren’t ready to take. People need time, not self-righteous indignation – the time will come when they *have* to pick a side and they either will, or they won’t. By that point, you will be far too busy with your own battles to notice. Also, with gatekeepers switching sides and going on murderous rampages, it makes you reconsider things when a side allies with them. I mean, if the OOA claim Addison, I honestly don’t know what I will do, because I just *can’t*…
3) And finally, I am unworthy – I’ve been told I’ll be the only one left. But throwing Ascension back into people’s faces like that when they voice legitimate concerns is only going to alienate them further. If people are on the fence, don’t you think you, as a Sentry acting on behalf of the council, should be encouraging people over onto your side rather than throwing rocks at their heads?

[Susie JParticipant]

👍🏻👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[Sean (@TheGilded)Moderator]

@blondiecamps – I assure you that especially now I am anything but cozy and sure. Perhaps in my disgust and fervor last night I spoke too soon and in too many extremes to properly get the point that I wanted to across. Please allow to rephrase my overly simplified point from last night:

It is absolutely a rough time right now. Many of us stood behind Four, myself included, and now she’s dead. That’s left many of us, myself included, without a side or purpose. I spoke too quickly before in saying that anyone who is without a side is a coward or unworthy, as that is the exact situation in which I find myself now. However, I am working to correct that. I’ve been contacting members of the factions. I’ve been soul searching on my own to see which of the sides I most agree with. I’ve been speaking with the unaffiliated to try to see sides I, in my fervor, may have missed before.

I was wrong to say that anyone without a side is unworthy, but anyone content to sit idly and say some variation of “I don’t have a side so I’m waiting for a side to prove themselves” is worthy of hatred. I’ve spoken with so many of you that are waiting for an entity, whether III or BoS or Addison/2 to reach out and hand you a reason for you to love them on a silver god damn platter and it is those that I accuse of weakness and unworthiness.

Ultimately you are correct. There is a leap of faith to be made. None of us understand the details of what’s going on, but we absolutely should understand enough to be invested, one way or another. I did not know Four’s abilities or powers or influence, but my allegiance lied with her because I was invested in her cause. With her death I am working to find that same dedication in the remaining factions rather than waiting to be fed an answer like a crying infant waiting for their bottle. You are right, in any other situation it may be more prudent to sit on the sidelines until an answer makes itself clear but in this situation those that do are weak in conviction and purpose, and should be aware that They Do Not Cater To The Weak.

Finally, to address your final point, it has never been the role of the Sentry to speak on behalf of the Council. Among the Disciples, that was the Scribe’s role. The role of Sentry is a policing one, outside of management, organization, and communication structuring I do not speak with any more authority than you do. My declaration of disgust for those content to sit idly is not coming from a place of power, it comes from my voice, a voice in the same crowd as you. At this point I would not dare try to convince someone to one side or the other because, as you said, there is ultimately a leap of faith to be made and that is a personal decision I would not dare make for another. However, as a man who feels strongly about this situation rather than a Sentry speaking with any authority, those content to sit on that fence waiting to be catered to deserve to have rocks thrown at them.

And finally, @blondiecamps, you are worthy. You will be the last one left not because you lack the strength to ascend as we will but because an ocean separates you from the ritual that we will attend. I believe everyone in this thread is ultimately worthy of Ascension. I’ve seen enough out of all of you to know that. It is knowing that fact that makes me so angry to see so many worthy people unwilling to contribute the strength of their voices to a cause because of their own uncertainty, laziness or entitlement.

I don’t want people to join a specific side. I just want people to stop waiting for a side to choose them.

[BlondieParticipant]

@thegilded Thank you for such an eloquent explanation of your position. I didn’t realise that your post was coming from a place of confusion, but now I completely understand your position and your anger.

[CodyParticipant]

I understand your perspective Sean.. I may not agree with it but I do understand.
I find it funny how you feel that those on the fence are so horrible, or that they should be punished.
When I first joined Tension, it was taboo to communicate with the BOS. Those who did so, were warned of being banned from tension. I had no desire to have that happen.
This seems to have changed now. Perhaps since Aleister invited Kim and Rizzo back, I am not to sure.
I myself personally have reached out publicly to agents of the BOS in hopes of gaining a better understanding. These interactions were fruitless.
All whom have sworn allegiances to the BOS have had no informations to offer to anyone. No one has received information from them except Kimberly it seems, and more recently Buz.
She can not share the details and neither can he.

I thank you for the criticism as it has spurred me to look further for answers.

I have always been one who wishes for unity and reparation between the voids that divide us all from the realization that we are connected beings. (my personal take on life)
I have been unsure as to the nature of the OOA… also as to the nature of the BOS.  The show Carnivale came to mind somewhat. Darkness disguised as light and light disguised as darkness.
As you yourself have mentioned, there is not true clarity as of this point.. there is only enough to gain a slight understanding of either side.
You would condemn those on the fence to “be stoned”, and yet here you are, lost yourself. Perhaps we should start nailing each other to crosses as well?  hah.
You claim that it is foolish to not choose a side and yet it seems as though many who have are in limbo once again, including yourself.
I would put it forward that it was foolish to choose a side as you now are left sitting on the fence yourself.

Sure there it may be viewed as courageous to choose a side, it can also be viewed as foolish, depending on the scope of your perspective. 
Remember, “there are no wrong choices” and we are all walking our own _paths.
I would say it would be more courageous to recognize that there is good and also negative aspects to both sides.(as far as I have been able to deduce thus far).
You Sean, as a devout follower to be lost is quite profound.

It appears there may be a third fork in the road that emerges, one that has potential to bridge the divide between the two sides. I find this to be more in tune with my personal perspectives.

If there is a deeper lesson to be learned, I am always ready to face it with an open mind.
I do not think I am now, nor will I be, readily able to swear an oath to either side.
This would potentially negate possibility.

I choose to stand by good and decent individuals.  I believe there to be these on all sides. There is good and bad everywhere. In the end it comes down to personal choice/s.
I believe that negativity and greed has ruled or maintained prominent influence for to long. I also feel that the uniting of positive individuals and the combined examples and acts done out of love, can change the predominant influences in the world.
My side is positivity.

I am “soul searching” as well. My soul speaks of greater things than black or white or sides.
I feel everything and everyone is connected.
I have a habit of seeing the good in everyone.
Many times I have been told this is a weakness.
I feel it is a great strength. We all have these aspects within us all.
I feel I is better to recognize the positive sides so that they may flourish.

Once again , your words have inspired me to dig deeper. Thank you for that.

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

It’s a weird feeling right now. I chose a side, balled up my fist and was ready to come out swinging… Then the incident happened and the revolution just went “poof!” like Bernie Sanders.

I have no idea where Addison’s headspace is at or what she is planning. I just know who my enemy is.

[AH-layParticipant]

*Putting on my honest hat here*

When it came time to decide (after the periscope diner video with III), I chose the OOA…wait, let me rephrase that: I chose FOUR, the only one who could take down III. I pledged my allegiance with the OOA only because of FOUR and openly declared it here in the forums, after that I received a call from who I believe was III asking me if I thought it was the right choice, because if so I was going to watch everything burn. It was interesting for me to receive that call because in all honesty, my rebellious side had been flirting with the idea of BoS, they had me intrigued to a point of a possible allegiance from my part, and in a way I believe Sentinel caught on to that, however as soon as they brought III with them, I threw that idea out the window, I do not stand with III…I think we forget that Tension is it’s own world and we are allowed to go in it to a limit, the laws that apply to our everyday life do not apply in The Tension Experience (how boring would it be if they did?). Some want Addison behind bars when in reality she took “justice” into her own hands in her own poetic way (this does not mean I wanted FOUR dead, I really thought she was a badass), before she killed FOUR we had been plotting and cheering for @electrichippo to kill III with the pill (but that murder was OK, right? *sarcasm tone*). My point is that this is theater after all. I believe my position is back to neutral again, my first call ever was from someone saying that a lot of this was just a distraction, then @amieexists recently received a call saying “it is not about Gatekeepers and Wars” and it solidifies my logic that there is a third entity that we haven’t seen yet, or maybe I am wrong…who knows? Maybe BoS is just using III? That thought has also been in my mind…

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  AH-lay.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  AH-lay.

[MikeParticipant]

You took the words right out of my mouth @aleocotillo

I was backing Four and the OOA by default since that’s what she was representing. Now, the representation of all sides doesn’t seem to interest me. III and BoS alignment. III tearing apart the OOA from the inside out. Addison…who even knows what Addison is doing or thinking at this point.

I feel lost in all of this now.

[AH-layParticipant]

“Not all those who wander are lost”

😉

[MelissaModerator]

So true @aleocotillo.

@mike I’m in the same boat. III is okay with violence, Gatekeeper 2 outright committed an act of violence. As I see it now, both factions have leaders that I can not support.

[MikeParticipant]

@mkarrett – That’s what we don’t know yet though, because III never “stepped down” to make room for 2 (2? Two? II?). He’s been so aggressive with saying he is the last and final Gatekeeper. He also never said that he was leaving the OOA, just that he was forming an alliance with BoS. So if III is still OOA, then III should technically still be the leader since he’s not leaving to make way for Gatekeeper 2. Addison might be rogue at this point…and maybe she’ll take the Gatekeeper 2 position…by any means necessary.

[MelissaModerator]

Good point @mike but I just honestly got the impression that III basically denounced the O.O.A. I mean, he called us Apostles sheep. So I figured III has left the O.O.A. leadership a while ago.

[MikeParticipant]

Good point @mkarrett – I wonder if @gatekeeper3 could clarify. He has been pretty silent since the meeting on Friday.

[Freedom’s FlameParticipant]

It’s intriguing to see the “old hands” expressing the same discontent and uncertainty as those of us who are new. I stated that I felt ~four was the most qualified and stable as a leader, and I stand by that. III is a traitor- he has betrayed those who followed him once, what’s to say he won’t do it again? Despite his announcement that he is with the BoS now, I feel that he will turn on them as well when the time comes. He knows that to them he’s just a tool to be disposed of, so even if III and the BoS win, there’ll be a long and bloody fight over control afterward. While Addison has a lot of people who are attached to her from prior events, I think that we need to think of her as a different person at this point. She’s an unknown variable, and I’m waiting to get a sense of her current condition before I make a decision about her. As it is, many of us are still gathering information- calling waiting to make an informed decision during a time of instability cowardice is insulting.

EDIT: The last bit was meant to be addressed toward @thegilded

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Freedom's Flame.

[TheBuzParticipant]

I was like “Why was that directed at me?!”

Then saw you edited it.

[NosnevetsParticipant]

@mkarrett I’ve been wondering if she even is 2. I don’t know much about the process of becoming a gatekeeper, but it seemed there was a whole ceremony/ritual that went along with it. Are they grown? Test tube babies. Are they summoned and manifested into a host? Is it just a title you give to the worthy? How do we even know Addison is properly 2? She was seen writing “Am I 2” standards by the hand of 4 and has been known to often be in a very Manchurian candidate… mk ultra-esque state.Perhaps writing those standards made her THINK she’s 2 while overhearing 4’s rants about hurting 3 gave her the urge to kill whoever/whenever. (although she seems somewhat cognizant apologizing to people via the phone and such.)

Who’s to say there isn’t a real 2 out there somewhere that is now looking to give her some comeuppance?

[BlondieParticipant]

On that note: “Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.”

[NosnevetsParticipant]

These times are interesting here aren’t they @aleocotillo?

I feel that since the beginning I’ve sided with Addison. But her position always seemed a little convoluted to me in the first place. She was OOA, then her dad bursts in the mixer and shows a different side. Her boyfriend spins a bard’s tale of love lost and possible reconciliation all the while we know 4 had her. Benny tries to commit suicide, is he dead? We never had confirmation that I can remember. If he isn’t thats a BIG emotional pull to try and manipulate her one way. 4 meanwhile, I mean I thought she was OOA, then 3 came along, and by virtue of what happened with 5 I assume when the next comes along the OOA essentially disowns the predecessor… So is 4 OOA? I don’t know. 3 seems OOA until he turns to BoS. So is 4 OOA and therefore Addison OOA? Addison kills 4 so is that acceptable by OOA standards? One of 3’s goals was to rid the world of 4.. so is she BoS now? No she said she wasn’t…

I should have added more run on sentences but I think you grasp my confusion.

I’m not sure I can look up to her anymore. The party lines don’t even seem clearly laid out enough let alone to know what good either has to offer. And Addison might be 3rd party all together.

But thank you for your comment, these personal stories are exactly what I’m looking for to help me see the sides from perspectives I’m not seeing.

[AH-layParticipant]

Glad to provide the little help I can, I only signed up a couple(?) weeks ago and I really wish I knew about Tension since the beginning, I also understand how the people who have been participating here longer have a soft spot for Addison, I probably would have one too. When I signed up it felt like I walked in a house where a family is having an argument and all I could do was stay out of it at first and eat some of the chips and dip while sitting in a corner.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  AH-lay.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  AH-lay.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  AH-lay.

[AmieParticipant]

I can agree with this logic that III hasn’t stepped down and also why he gave that warning to Addison, after all he probably still wants to the final counted. I think BoS is using him as a means to an end and I don’t see him as their leader in any way shape or form. I have friends on both sides. I stand where that phone call has left me, wondering what is “behind the magic trick”. Only time will tell and we are getting closer every day. This doesn’t make me uninformed, uncaring or cowardly in my eyes. It makes me aware that there is more we aren’t seeing.

[MelissaModerator]

Absolutely @amieexists I considered what III has been saying all along that he is the Last and Final. However if he considers himself still the leader of O.O.A. and in cahoots with BoS, it’s a pretty bizarre position to be in.

[AmieParticipant]

Agreed @mkarrett. I wouldn’t put bizarre past him after the pancake spectacle. Seriously though, it would be nice to hear from anyone at this point.

[GATEKEEPER3Keymaster]

Confusion, mass hysteria.

When will you see what I have done?

You call what I do murder? This is not murder, this is freedom.

You came in as sheep, herded by their words. Now, lambs must rise to lions.

III is the last counted. Why? Because I refuse to perpetuate the cycle of lies being told to you by the Institute.

Do not worship a thing no one has heard from in years.

I have destroyed, so that YOU may rebuild.

Be your OWN God. Do not worship their fairytale.

There is no TWO, never will be a TWO. Just a delusional girl brainwashed by another delusional girl.

III is not Chaos. III is The Truth.

Soon, you too will see.

The New Dawn is approaching. OUR new Dawn.

[Anonymous]

You’re back!

[Kimberly @ElectricHippoParticipant]

Good to see you again @gatekeeper3. I’m sure you know I do not support meaningless violence. For me, the question is, has the violence we’ve seen and heard of been meaningless, or is it somehow justified. A form of self defense perhaps, even if confused and convoluted? Maybe a necessity towards a greater good? Other than this *minor* detail, I do believe there is much truth in your current statement. I am my own “God.” I stand with. I don’t follow. I am loyal, but not obedient. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[MikeParticipant]

But this only applies to people that align themselves with you, correct?

Now, Regent 7 no longer walks my halls, Gatekeeper four is as silent as Anoch and the BOS, with my help, will grow stronger than ever.

My followers will be rewarded.

The others though… You see, I enjoy having fun, making a quirky joke or two, but this is nearing the end for every single one that hasn’t pledged their loyalty to me and I can’t find anything to smile about for those people.

It’s all over. They have wasted their life. When faced with the most important decision of their miserable existence, they chose incorrectly. It’s honestly just sad. I mourn for them.

So by aligning themselves with you, does that automatically align them with BoS…and visa versa? If so, that makes things a lot more clear.

You do have a good point, you destroy so that WE can rebuild…and rebuild we shall.

Don’t mourn for me Argentina. I mourn for you and how you underestimate the people who do not follow you.

The new Dusk is approaching as well, remember that.

[Jake OParticipant]

I stand with the truth. something we desperately need more of.
BOS, what is BOS now that Addison is a murderer when one of their main goals was to save her?
OOA, what is the OOA if they caused Addison to become a murderer?

To me, there are no sides to choose anymore. There’s only a desire for truth and evidence. There seems to be no winning horse to pick in this race at the moment.

[MikeParticipant]

Agreed @endlesspictures – III seems to think what he says is “truth” and that he is the last and final. Just because you say something over and over again does not make it “true”, no matter how much you want it to be.

[Jake OParticipant]

agreed, I’ve found the people that have to claim they are telling the truth all the time, tend to lie the most

[TheBuzParticipant]

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Michael RizzoParticipant]

This is why I chose to stand with the last counted… I’m diggin what you’re saying @gatekeeper3

[AH-layParticipant]

Blah, blah, blah…all this talk @gatekeeper3 and yet no action, you call us sheep because we followed the OOA, yet you think we are fools for NOT following you when all you have done is provide very little information to us, If we were to follow you wouldn’t THAT make us sheep? See, you are correct on one thing: I am my own God and will not stand by you when your recruit tactic is based on threats, do you have anything more powerful than that instead? Give us THAT then.

[NosnevetsParticipant]

When WILL I see what you have done?

I don’t know that I’d call anything you’ve done murder. Sure you speak of knives often, but I haven’t seen anything. If anything, the only thing I have witnessed was Addison killing 4. I also witnessed a pill being sent to you via various hands. That may have been to kill you. That may have been a poison, but it also may have been vitamin C or calcium or some other thing to help you adjust to your new form. I absolutely do not know a thing. Not many have stated their intent or actions so I only know what I’ve seen. Which is why I’ve asked these members and ultimately you and others like you about your thoughts, opinions, and experiences so that I may form my own.

I came into the fold not blindly but out of intrigue. Maybe that was like a sheep being led by the words of fairytales, but I like to think I have carefully considered each word received and decided what it meant to me. I want to be a lion @gatekeeper3. And knowledge is power. So tell me why murder is freedom because from the outside it just looks like murder. Let me into your mind.

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

What III preaches is rebellion through conformity. How ironic that he wants us to stop being sheep while simultaneously falling on our knees before HIM. Say what you will about the OOA, but they did not proclaim a single person or individual as the “ultimate truth.” The Gatekeepers led and educated and knew their place. They knew they were temporary…and our little mask-wearing Napoleon is too, whether he believes it or not.

Both the OOA and BOS have done sketchy things. Honestly, I don’t know who to fear more. There are only a handful of people I’ve ever trusted on this path (Where the hell are you, J?) and all I can do is go with my gut now. Ultimately, there comes a time when you have to stop listening to the propaganda from both sides and deal with the wolf at the gates. And that wolf is @gatekeeper3. To hell with him.

[NosnevetsParticipant]

I agree @kasch and how fucked up is it to live/vote out of fear for the other rising to power? Both haven’t been portrayed as any good so far. Except being enlightened I guess. But it seems both want to control who is enlightened and how. So I’d rather learn the good about each and decide which downsides I can live with/ are outnumbered by the good they offer.

[AmieParticipant]

Thank you for reaching out. Do you wish the Institute and the OOA to no longer exist then, that we should build up towards Ascension with our own guidance or is there no Ascension to be had? Why do you count yourself still if everything we’ve been told is a lie. Are you not yourself willing to shed what you were made into so we can see the truth?

[NosnevetsParticipant]

No not at all, my intention wasn’t to call for the abolishing of either side. (it seems that’s what the sides themselves are doing, not so much in the lets go tear them down sense, but in the “once this war is over we’ll be the ones left standing” sense)

I just want to know why each person is choosing sides. Because a ton of people were so quick to and I don’t see anything but hearsay from either. I just want help making up my mind, maybe that is impossible, but a conversation is always welcome.

In fact to me it seems Both side essentially want the same thing. They want Ascension for its members. So why is one better than the other? And what differences do they offer in Ascension methods/meaning that may sway us one way or another?

[AH-layParticipant]

Pretty sure this was towards @gatekeeper3

[NosnevetsParticipant]

Ah, gotcha.

[Susie JParticipant]

I pick me. I don’t like murder, I don’t like non-consensual abuse. I don’t like infantilising women or men simply because they fit a type. I came here for truth and enlightenment and while I’ve learned some things, I feel like I lost the _path. But the biggest thing we have is each other. We don’t have to be a cohesive choir of yes people for any one side. And now I have to go back to work. Great timing, Susie. =P

[Anonymous]

Forgive the lateness of this response please.

I honestly don’t understand the cry for evidence. I think we’ve been given evidence. No matter what is shown, there will always be a way to say that it’s not enough, could be fake, could be something else. To me this is storytelling and even in a situation where it’s not, the simplest explanation is frequently the best one.

There’s a great Song of Ice and Fire podcast, Boiled Leather Audio Hour. One of the hosts has a way of looking at all the crazy fan theories that are out there – i.e. Euron and Daario are the same person. He asks, what storytelling purpose would that serve? And it’s a great way to look at anything like this. Sure, the pill could have been vitamin C. What storytelling purpose would that have served? Isn’t it a better story (and quicker moving) if it was intended to kill him, the plot was foiled, and a new alliance was formed?

It seems to me that we’ve asked for evidence of crimes and we’ve received it, only to question it. Do you need a real body? Do you need to check the pulse yourself? I’m not sure what you expect. I felt that I’d been given plenty of evidence to make my choice. I’ve spelled this out in another thread. I know it could all be incorrect or falsified, I could be an idiot, and it’s likely I made the wrong choice (I call a 50% chance “likely”) but I’m not going to get any evidence that a detective, lawyer, judge, or doctor would really be satisfied with. if that’s what you’re looking for, it ain’t coming.

[Jake OParticipant]

while I can agree with some of what you’re saying about keeping the story moving, I disagree with something as major as choosing a side or what you believe in. When they have presented us with actual events and story points that we’ve witnessed, it allows everyone to make a more informed decision.

For example, we have now witnessed Addison commit murder. This makes me not want to follow her and if she is with the OOA, then I probably would choose not to follow them.

However, III telling us he has killed or maimed a major character, but not showing us any viable proof makes that heresay.
In game of thrones, if they had a character tell us Jamie Lannister is dead, but we never saw it, would we be satisfied? I think everyone would question whether he was actually dead first and if he was actually dead the audience would be mad at the storytellers.

Similarly, we have no evidence that Benny/Mark actually offed himself. Other than a phone call from Tom, this is hardly a good reason to believe he is actually dead and actually further complicates things as Tom could have killed him.

The BOS camp is secretive and gives me practically zero reason to care what they are doing. All we know is they are against the OOA.

My overall point being, there is ample reason to still not have picked a side. Not to mention some of us have never been directly asked to choose a side.

[Andrew KaschParticipant]

FYI, @daela was shown proof of III’s murders. So we know full well what he’s done.

That’s all I need to know to stand firmly against him no matter what.

[Anonymous]

@kasch – that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Many saw that evidence and said it wasn’t enough.

[Anonymous]

@endlesspictures –

Well, yes, I understand what you’re saying, but at the same time I don’t think that’s what *I* was saying.

We have evidence that III committed murder – Lauren was shown photographs. No, they weren’t of dead bodies, but I’m not sure given what we’re actually looking at that I need more than that. He claims he “ended” Aleister – we haven’t seen a body but he confessed to it, so maybe I need to take that at face value. Unless “ended” has an alternate meaning I’m not aware of.

When I watch a movie and I’m not shown a dead body, but the main characters all tell me that someone died, I believe them. Not to jump to the *other* thread, but we never saw what was in the box in Seven. We all know what was in the box.

Aside from evidence of murder, we’ve also been shown an article in a scientific journal (assuming peer review) claiming that the OOA engages in condemnable behavior. You & I (and Addison B.) met with Warren, who was another form of “evidence” in that he was a witness. Kim & others have met with Addison’s parents. None of it is infallible but it adds up.

Also, to return to your example – are you convinced that the Blackfish is dead (in the show)? How about Mance Rayder (in the books)?

[Jake OParticipant]

I’m not saying all story points need to be cleanly resolved. We just have zero physical evidence that III has committed any of these crimes.

Addison, a murderer, showing someone, a single person, pictures of people she claims are now dead is not strong enough to persuade me of anything.

In seven, we have seen the killer’s handy work for the whole length of the movie, so it’s not asking the audience to take much of a leap to assume that there’s a head in the box. But I would also argue, this leads to what the film leaves the audience with, a giant moral conundrum about Brad Pitt’s choice to shoot the killer and on top of that WITHOUT having seen what’s in the box himself which effectively places the audience in his shoes. What a great fucking scene!

I can agree with you on the OOA. We definitely have far more evidence of wrongdoing by them than of BOS, of which we have none. However, until I clearly understand what the hell BOS is doing, I have no intention of siding with them either.

Also, why choose a side when I haven’t been asked to?

As for game of thrones (I’ve only watched the show), if I don’t see it on camera, I don’t believe it. But that’s television, they love bringing people back from the dead!

[Anonymous]

@endlesspictures – Fair enough. I definitely see your point about BoS – I think I’m speaking more to the “it’s not enough” people re: the evidence we have against the OOA.

Great point about Seven. Bad example on my part. Sorry about that.

I guess I just don’t want people to be waiting for something that’s not coming. Taking action can make a story/game far more interesting than waiting for something to be handed to you. It seems like we’re being given that opportunity here.

[AH-layParticipant]

I have a hard time believing that after how the story has developed, it will turn out that GK3 hasn’t murdered those people, just because we haven’t seen him murder anyone like we saw Addison murder Four, does not mean we won’t see him do it in the future (Also the fact that he hasn’t denied the murders). Months after this rabbit hole started, we JUST got to see two of the Gatekeepers faces, so we might see more of III soon.

[Jake OParticipant]

oh I agree, I’m not saying he’s innocent and I’m not saying he hasn’t or won’t kill someone. He’s just prone to exaggerate, so until I see something, anything to support his claims, I don’t believe it.
After all, this is a dark world we’re playing in.
In the meantime, BOS haven’t killed anyone at all to my knowledge or even claimed to commit any act of violence. So take that as you will about the OOA

[ReidVParticipant]

*inserts something about the futility of trying to control a false narrative*

[CodyParticipant]

How is expressing individual perspective,”trying to control a false narrative”?
I thought there were, “No wrong choices” and that we were to speak our minds. Also that if we were to stop speaking our minds we “are compromised”.
This experience, at first, encouraged us to think outside the box. Now it seems we are being forced into one of two boxes.
This is primarily done by other participants.
If we truly “are the experience” and we are “creating the experience”, then why on earth should we be forced to conform to any ideals at all?
Step outside your box so we can place you into another.
This does not feel like “enlightenment” to me at all.
I too feel as though I have lost my _path.

[TinNoseParticipant]

I’ve also been lurking. And I’ve received the emails to be more active.

So this is me, announcing my loyalty to the OOA.

[Author]

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