PERISCOPE 8/3/2016

Too soon, Derek. Too soon.

@monkeymuffin333 more subtle if I said he came up short at the checkout?

Yeah, I was expecting it to be a much longer meeting!! That was definitely a quick one, but seemingly effective.

Thinking about this – III (or someone on III’s account) asked that it be Periscoped, and if the assassination didn’t occur, it would have been a largely uneventful meeting. Buz came in, dropped the box, grabbed a beer, and was led back out.

Something’s pretty sus here, to me at least. I feel like III knew something was going down here.

We also first got to see @gatekeeper3 via a “fake” assassination attempt. The precedent is that he’s no stranger to staged tactics.

To clarify, no one asked or insisted that anything be Periscoped. It was made very clear that my primary goal was to bear witness. Only after that they informed me that I had the option to broadcast this to others only if I felt that I wanted to

ALLELUIA !!!!!!

In a different note: Silly me to have never realised III was a midget (not than i had a lot of clues before)

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Michel.

I agree. @mkarrett

Gee, and me who thought i was overly idealistic for having sided with II.

Congrats for being more above this arg grey vs grey morality than me.

…eh

Well, your ruse certainly fit the general din and confusion of everything else that was happening. But ar you prepared to accept the responsibility of being the Apostles that assassinated a gatekeeper?

You’ll have to ask @thebuz. I was merely playing up the angry friend in hopes that III would get closer to him.

Judging from the homicidal look in Buz’s eyes, I think he’s probably just fine with this.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Andrew Kasch.

While I find homicidal rage stimulating, I’m also warning you both that the implications of your actions will set you both apart. Be prepared to live with the consequences.

I mean the feud didn’t extend to your friendship and we all knew that. I’d call it more of a difference of opinion than fued.

@kasch – You completely fooled me, but I’m extremely gullible. Also when @thebuz does resurface tell him I owe him a punch in the face.

From the future.

Yeah the future…😉

I guess if I’m looking at the Instagram even if the OOA didn’t direct it they seem to be ok with it.

Maybe no one sent it to him and the call and box were made up.

I vote for that. ^^^

How quickly we all forget. Do you not stand with your “brother” anymore? Also, OOA sanctioned? Wasn’t he one of yours?

Mike, when are you going to give it a rest. Up here on team “FE” and trying to come for anyone because you can’t be scribe again? Everyone knows you’d be all up in that GK2 action if she really made you scribe. (Everyone saw your original post, you were ready to kiss ass again when she mentioned you before editing the post). As for buz? Unlike the OOA and team “FE”, we aren’t too fond about senseless killing (shocking, who would’ve thought?)… All you need to know is it’s safe to say you won’t see Buz sitting with us come scare LA

Umm, the WHOLE POINT of Team FE is that we don’t support murderers…

Dang. THAT was threatening.

There’s the response I was expecting, so thank you for that.

To your points:

– “Mike, when are you going to give it a rest” – Never. Why would I? It seems I’m one of the only people who aren’t afraid to call people on their shit. I have my own Archive of Knowledge that I like to use and bring up points that people seem to conveniently forget. Ever think this is the reason we can’t edit posts after 5 minutes? Everything on here is a living history. Some people may like to move on, but I like to remember and remind.

– Up here on team “FE” and trying to come for anyone because you can’t be scribe again? – You think that’s what this is about? How cute! I’m team “FE” because…well, I already explained it. All sides are a joke right now, not giving answers, being sketchy and untrustworthy, murder, etc.

Everyone knows you’d be all up in that GK2 action if she really made you scribe. – Again, cute answer. Two killed Four…cowardly…and is playing the “victim” card. If she had me be Scribe again, that doesn’t mean anything in regards to her. The “Scribe” title doesn’t mean I have to “be all up in that GK2 action”. I’m one of the few that never liked Addison and also one of the few that hasn’t changed their position. Right Mr. Fuck the OOA…oh jk, let me back in, phew thanks, oh jk again, Fuck the OOA”.

(Everyone saw your original post, you were ready to kiss ass again when she mentioned you before editing the post). – You think me being gracious for a title given back to me, that was stripped of me, is ass kissing? Well it’s not, it’s common courtesy. You may not like your boss, but when he tries to do something nice, you’re not going to be a dick to him right?

All you need to know is it’s safe to say you won’t see Buz sitting with us come scare LA – So you’re turning your back on your “brother” who you wanted by your side? Good to know. glad the BoS treats things like the lunch room at school. You can’t sit with us! lol

So for everyone thinking they want to go to the BoS side, remember that they won’t stand by you, or sit with you, when shit goes down

Team Snicker(s) 😀

If one of your fellow “FE” peeps goes ahead and does some real dirty shit (I’m talking some shit that you goes against everything you stand for). Would you really want them sitting next to you. That’s not school lunch room politics, that’s just common sense. But hey, if you guys are down with that and don’t judge murderers? Then it seems like you and the OOA have a lot more in common than you thought?

Do you need to borrow a dictionary @rizzzoooooo? Just asking because judge and support are not synonyms…

Naw son, I don’t turn my back on my friends.

Case in point, I’d still with any of you BoS detractors even though you’re all doing something I don’t agree with.

Ok bb, I understand that and we all share the same mindset, We are always here for you and anyone else (BOS or not) but murder? When your “brother” who stood with you, who wanted to help people, who wanted to SAVE people, just turns his back and kills a man… I’ll be honest, I could not and will not ever stand by with that man next to me. No one here has done anything that would stop BOS from trying to help them, until last night. Until Buz with one Z went ahead and took a man’s life. We all have to make our own decisions, we make our own path… Buz made his choices all by himself, and unfortunately we just can not abide with that.

Totally get it, BUT, and this is a more rhetorical question, so no need to answer it, just think about it….What if what Four had said (during the first attempt with the pill) about how killing III would save countless others, would that murder not be for the greater good and saving lives…even if it meant killing someone? If you look at it like that, would you not still stand with someone who had that as a motive?

OK, see, a long time ago I was a web developer, and had to answer a bunch of questions on my first day, one of which was “who is your favorite superhero?” I answered Ozymandias, because yes, killing millions to save billions. Let’s just say people thought I was a sociopath that day.

Love the graphic novel. The movie… well, it was a movie.
I can relate to Doctor Manhattan more than any of them.

100% get where you’re coming from, but let me say this. The way Buz talked about 3 before he “switched sides”, was very biased. It was never a “we need to kill three but just to save lives” it was a “I hate three so much I want to kill him”. (Obviously not exact words).

His best friend who knew this was happening is saying that we should all celebrate the death of this man. Celebration should never follow a death, even if it was to “save countless others”, this death should just be another part of the war, but people are celebrating! Trying to party because Buz killed a man!

He also did this on his own with the help of the OOA, we had no knowledge of this what so ever. He went behind our backs, and killed an ally. No matter what three has done in the past, three had not repeated his actions of killing while partnered with the BOS, nor do we even know if he would repeat again. Trust is very important to us, Buz broke that trust and then killed an ally.

I know we are in this war and that we need to doubt what anyone else says, but if you just look at this as if you were apart of the BOS… Do you really think you could stand with someone after they betray your family, lie to your family, break the trust of your family, and then kill one of your own?
We just can not do that.

Totally understand…except I do disagree on one part

“He also did this on his own with the help of the OOA” – We do not know this as fact just yet. Sure it seems that way, but until 2, III, Regent 7, or Buz comes here and (hopefully) drops some knowledge, we are just throwing theories around still.

I’m not going to stand behind @thebuz or anyone that obviously stepped away and did their own deed, this was his own choice, his own act. He either did this on his own or under someone’s order outside of BoS to do this act.

Not to mention that everyone that supports the OOA was shouting and demanding transparency when someone from your own didn’t let everyone know or at least get everyone’s vote to perform this. Andrew knew and didn’t tell you.

Preach!

@mkarrett: It is curious that wishing people well is all that it would take to make you think I would be involved in organizing a murder. Is burning at the stake next or is it throwing me into a river to see if I float?

Well Nate, I wish that would be the case, believe me I do, but like I’ve been instructed before: “This is Tension”. Fingers will be pointed at the wrong directions.

I know…:(

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Blondie.

Maybe YOU’RE next! Dun dun DUUUUUUUN

But they can celebrate the return of the OOA and the restoration of all our paths, as well as the lives @thebuz just saved… (@regent7, @nking, myself and countless others).

…if that is indeed what has happened. Until Buz can clarify the events of last night, I will continue to be on edge.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Andrew Kasch.

You’re not the only one unconvinced… I couldn’t watch the periscope as my computer crashed and hasn’t been right all day, so if someone could clarify – did Buz strangle III?

Yes, @blondiecamps, we saw @thebuz attack and strangle III… some feel it is unclear how much damage was done to III.

Thanks @reaton

It takes a long time and a lot of strength to strangle someone to death…

This is very true. So what’s the prevailing theory? Buz and III are in cahoots?

I wonder if like Alesiter’s facebook account was taken over, someone decided to take over III’s?

I think that’s very likely @amieexists – I only brought it up because I noticed it, I’m not sure that the members page is a reliable source of information. I do think that it’s interesting that we haven’t heard from @regent7 or @gatekeeper2 though, and the Red Room picture is worrisome.

Excellent point, @mike, I had not noticed the difference in boxes. I was focusing rather heavily on the third person in the room and trying to identify him

Whoa. I figured it was a resolution issue but yeah, taking another look it’s definitely a different box. Apart from the markings, the box pictured is sorta crushed, vs the clean, more structured box in the video. Very very sus.

Thanks for pointing out the box, I thought something was different but hadn’t watched it back. This could be explained away but I’d say it’s fishy.

and Two as well 😉

We can sit here and spin the whole “murder is murder” thing till the end of time, but these are the facts:

III was a tyrant who cut down all who opposed him and left the OOA littered with corpses.
II killed someone in a heated moment after months of what was suggested to be psychological and physical punishment.

That doesn’t excuse what she did, but when you’re comparing the heinous nature and body count on both sides, III wins by a huge fucking margin.

Ah. I see, my mistake.

So is murder okay whenever you agree with it or is it only when the OOA approves of it?

All for the greater good, right? Personal beliefs, morals, right or wrong, sometimes gotta put that aside to act for The Glorious OOA, eh?

Let me put it hypothetically: If someone killed Kim Jong Un and restored freedom to North Korea, would you be so quick to paint the assassin as a murderer?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Andrew Kasch.

If there was a non-murdery alternative, then yeah…

The essence of the point that I have the biggest trouble justifying is when, in each of our minds, “murderer” and “assassin” become the other. It is a utilitarian thought to believe that sacrificing X lives in favor of Y lives is justified when Y is greater than X. A mathematical argument can be made for it, but make no mistake that any who kill or actively support a kill, while acting in a utilitarian sense, are losing a piece of a their humanity when you begin to look at, not the ending of a life, but balancing the equations. It concerns me how supporters of last night’s action are so quick to accept the loss of a piece of their humanity for a cause we barely understand.

But how balanced are you willing to accept in this equation? We haven’t even seen any of III’s murders or deaths, we are only taking it on faith based off what the OOA is saying that III was dangerous in the first place. Do you find it acceptable to sacrifice X in order to save a Y that you’ve only heard about in reports? Even if you trust the OOA, do you trust themselves so much that you find it acceptable to take a life to save lives you’ve never met, know, or heard about?

Once you’ve crossed the line, how deep are you willing to go? How many morals are you willing to pervert, lives are you willing to take, in Their name?

“A mathematical argument can be made for it, but make no mistake that any who kill or actively support a kill, while acting in a utilitarian sense, are losing a piece of a their humanity when you begin to look at, not the ending of a life, but balancing the equations.”

What you are saying is true, but that’s just humanity. Wishing for non-violence doesn’t always stop violence from happening, and in cases of war, sometimes enables it.

We might not have SEEN III’s murderers…but others have. His victims have spoken. And III himself has boasted about his spree.

The sad fact is that there will always people in this universe who will do anything to gain power and can’t be negotiated with.

I’m not so naive as to believe that a peaceful answer can always be found, we are much to base a species to have a peaceful solution to every problem. However, the sacrifice has been, by and large, glossed over in this discussion. Ending a life taints the killer irrevocably. Buz was the first among us, to my knowledge, that has tainted himself in this way for a cause that we barely understand and certainly can’t trust.

Have the Disciples become so zealous that killing for the OOA has become something worthy of celebration? That is no longer faith, that is radicalization. It is exceptionally unlikely that Buz will be the last. When the OOA demands another head and justifies it with text on a screen and videos dispersed online and promises of the “greater good”, are we to celebrate the further corruption of the Disciples, as well?

Now more than ever, every Disciple reading this should ask themselves: How far are you willing to go for Them?

I believe that the choice was made for a cause. I believe the “greater good” doesn’t lie with “who” but “what” a person believes in.

I believe this piece of humanity sacrificed was for the cause of enlightenment.

Only through sacrifice can we know certain truths.

If someone was stupid enough to think that killing one head of a hydra slays the beast, then there are much larger conversations to be had.

@kasch You make it sound like the only options are inaction or murder, III or 2. There is another path, I assure you, and it is certainly not an inactive one…

You could be right, @blondiecamps. But you also didn’t have a target on your head.

Even after all of his cold-blooded murders and iron grip on this community, I reached out to him privately to try and talk things out. Nothing came of it. I gave him infinite patience, and slowly realized that change could only happen with his removal. And we all know that he would not have done so willingly.

There was a time when the whole community was sick of III’s shit and felt united against him. Now it’s beginning to feel like Stockholm Syndrome.

@kasch It seems to me III’s true power was fear, but as soon as everyone actually saw the man behind the ego and stories and their fear diminished, he lost his hold and his claims of murder trailed off to be replaced by empty threats. The dog had already been neutered.

Yet you ignore these acts within the OOA. Such an odd stance.
I noticed the box was different when i watched the vid this am. I see it has already been brought up. Good job guys!

Let’s not use one breath to publicly decry murder while using the next to celebrate it, hmm?

If we tried to plot out every variable available to us we’d be doing this much longer than Sept. I will take the information given to me at it’s word because I don’t want to play the what if game. I will assume III has been killed and if I’m wrong, that’s ok. I will also assume III did a lot of damage to others, I don’t need tangible proof. @gatekeeper2 killed Four. Everyone has blood on their hands and none of it is ok. I will still navigate this path because the one thing that hasn’t changed is that I want to see where this goes. I don’t care what side anyone is on and I don’t think one is wrong over the other. We just are. I can’t tear people down because it just really isn’t who I am but I can say I’m not at all happy to see what Buz did, but it has been done. I don’t celebrate this, its not a win. This doesn’t automatically restore the OOA to where we started and put it in a good place. Maybe it never will be a good place. Maybe the BoS is really run by bad people. No one knows anything for certain and if you say you do then you aren’t being honest with yourself. Let’s keep moving and see where we end up. There is a good chance none of us will be happy with the outcome.

I feel what you are saying quite deeply for the most part.
Can you show me where BOS has any blood on their hands? Other than aligning with III? Whom committed his supposed atrocities before he aligned with them..
ANYONE?

(Copy pasted from activity comment because I agree, this is a better conversational medium)

Call it what you will, but surely you can see that the normalization and celebration of murder, even if for what Mama GK2 or Papa OOA calls the greater good, is something that warrants at least some concern, no?

(Agreed bb)
What I find more concerning is the rampant hypocracy and alliance flipping that seems to be vogue of late amoung Apostles.

Unpopular opinion: @thebuz tried something a lot of us were thinking but didn’t have the balls to do.

I don’t think is the lack of balls, I think it was more of having an opportunity. It’s not like we can just see III on the street and take him out.

@mike yes, but one could argue Buz’s strong stance on III, combined with a very large negative responce to III when he came into power, is what allowed this to happen.

Its like we all wished for change, and a couple weeks later are wanting to play take-backies because we didn’t like the box the change came in.

Ahh ok, I getcha. That very well could be. It’s like you said, “We shape Tension”.

With that being said – Ascension should have bowls of candy, specifically Peanut Butter M&Ms, and mac and cheese.

Oooh, how about:
Four left behind a small legacy containing just enough money to purchase return flights to LA for Blondie…

Not gonna lie, that’d be awesome.

@blondiecamps – if the airlines had screwed up badly enough with my flights this past weekend to get large enough vouchers out of them I would totally give them to you so you could go to Tension.

@coryphella The thought is muchly appreciated. It’s gonna take me a year to save up but I’m hoping to fly out for some conventions next year. Maybe do a tour of important Tension-related sights… 😉

@mike peanut butter m&m’s and mac and cheese would make me quite happy! That’s probably how they will get our guard down…

@atticus360 I like the cut of your jib. Would love to buy you a beer sometime, man!

Pacificity and submission is what allowed a monster to gain control of the OOA. Evil triumphs when people do nothing.

This was a concerted effort involving premeditation and intent that was developed and honed over weeks. This was not a spontaneous act of passion. This was the culmination of a twisting of a soul (and I count @kasch also, your hands are not clean). One of US, who has sat with us, drank with us, gone down the same rabbit holes as me, you, him and her has done this and we should be fucking unsettled by it. Yeah, I entertain the thought of murder probably more often than the average bear, but balls has nothing to do with exercising the restraint to, you know, be part of society and find other solutions.

I don’t entirely disagree with your sentiment. It was pretty disturbing to see my best friend look so cold and twisted as he choked the life out of III.

But I look back at III’s reign of terror and I know @thebuz made the right choice.

To be fair, it wouldn’t be the first time that a community member has had the opportunity to assassinate a Gatekeeper. @electrichippo chose to ally herself with a person who, at the time, was the only known murderer to us. @thebuz had his own opportunity, and he decided to end @gatekeeper3. I would also like to make a point that the end of @gatekeeper3 seems to be a return to the normal pattern of events, where the previous Gatekeeper is removed from play when a new one appears. The end of III was to happen sooner or later, but it would appear that some members of our community decided to take a more… proactive approach to restoring the status quo.

@addisonborn you have voiced something I dread to contemplate. Each Gatekeeper does seem to meet an end at another’s hand. What is coming, I do not know if I want to witness for it may be devastating. If that makes me weak in some eyes, I really don’t care.

@reaton Agreed. I can’t imagine anyone looking forward to this regardless of affiliation, but the cards are on the table..

The only way for the BoS to end the OOA is by ending their gatekeepers. The only way for the OOA to continue is by ending GK2. This is something she must have known when she took the mantle, at least that’s what we’d expect. I can’t imagine Four taking Addison under her wing and not telling her the outcome of being a Gatekeeper?

Our one possible out – we know that word that may snap her out of it, but at this point would it have any effect? Or is she too far removed for it to be meaningful?

What you say makes sense, but what no one has mentioned yet is Gatekeeper 5. He was not killed (that we know of) in order for Four to become the next Gatekeeper. He left in an eloquent way, with a good bye letter saying he “must receive his ultimate reward”. Some think he could have been “promoted” and then ended by III or maybe the “ultimate reward” is death.

Actually, as I’m typing it out, if death was the “ultimate reward”, that would fit your theory pretty well @addisonborn

@mike Throwing back to my phone call, it sounded like you’re all gonna receive the ultimate reward…

So this has happened 239 times already? Is the enlightenment we are all seeking simply the enlightening of this reality of gatekeepers?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by  Susie J. Reason: Sassage finger

Without the demonstration of such a species-devastating device at Hiroshima and Nagasaki,it’s estimated Hirohito wouldn’t have allowed surrender for ten years. That saved millions of lives. Not just allied lives, but Japanese too. I advocate peaceful solutions when feasible. Just because they’re possible doesn’t mean they’re sound. Surrender is a nonviolent option. Submission is a nonviolent option. Weakness, appeasement, acceptance of tyranny are nonviolent options.
Murder is abhorrent. Yeah. I know. I get it. I’m human. But there are times, it’s a universal truth, whether you choose to accept it or not, that at times it’s the only viable option.

Respectfully.

Seconded, Nate.